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check engine light; 1994
Topic Started: Feb 14 2010, 01:17 PM (2,652 Views)
gman
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My "check engine" light came on a couple of days ago. After diagnosing the status code it comes back to the following error:
EGR System & REGT Sensor Circuit -- blink code is a 51 on 94 metro. I removed and cleaned the EGR valve last fall but the light just came on recently.

Any ideas what I should do to begin troubleshooting this? Will it affect the engine if left untreated?
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jellybean


did you do a complete cleaning? info is on this site
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Bad Bent
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Facetious Educated Donkey

Here is the Topic: Metro EGR System.

As best I can find, the solution may be to clean the passages that go through the block and exhaust manifold. The is a 90o bent in the manifold. The quick check is to remove the EGR and start the engine. You will hear/feel a vacuum and air pressure at the two ports. Or not. :'(
I would at least unbolt the header-Catalytic converter pipe while cleaning out the carbon with spray carb or brake cleaner. Advancing the timing to 8-9o would lessen the carbon buildup. Seafoam Maintenance is a good suggestion for controlling the carbon. B-)
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gman
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Brent,
Thanks for the info. I did this last fall, but it is very possible I didn't get the EGR valve thoroughly clean. I am going to pull it back off and clean again -- and also check for air flow coming from those holes on the engine with the valve removed. I'm hoping this does the trick.
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gman
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Okay, this evening I removed the EGR valve and blew a lot of carb/choke cleaner through it then dried it with compressed air. I got a little dark stuff out the valve but very little. For the most part, the carb/choke cleaner came out clear. After removing the valve, I started the car and checked the holes. The one closest to the front bumper was blowing air out of it. The other hole I could not really feel anything. There may have been a light suction on it, but if so, it was very light. Would this possibly indicate the intake hole is clogged?

I reset the computer so the check engine light went off and put the egr valve back on. I guess I'll see if the check engine light comes back on.
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idmetro
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gman - I think your egr passage is still blocked or almost blocked. You should be getting noticeable suction on the hole towards the firewall. When I tore mine down it was clogged tight about an inch from where the passage enters the manifold under the throttle body. I eventually managed to get it clear by reaming it from both ends but it took some doing. (On a side note I found some paperwork in the car indicating the EGR was diagnosed as faulty and changed twice by the previous owners mechanic). 30k miles later the check engine light has not come one but I am about ready to clean the system just for good measure.
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gman
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idmetro--thanks for your input. I suspect you may be right. If the "check engine" light comes back on, I will assume that is my problem. I have done about all I feel comfortable doing on the engine. If I go to a mechanic, do I just tell them the egr suction is clogged and needs cleaning out? What are the ramifications/long term effects of not unclogging that suction line?

Just out of curiousity, that suction hole -- where does it run to. If I wanted to attempt to clean it myself, how did you clean yours? I just really don't want to fudge up the engine cause I'm not too engine savvy. I don't mind piddling around on the car some, but don't want to get too involved in something I might cannot fix or something I might just mess up worse.

When I cleaned the egr valve last fall, I also replaced all the rubber tubing, so I know the tubing is not clogged -- and I'm pretty confident the egr valve itself is clean.
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Johnny Mullet
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Hi-Tech Redneck

gman
Feb 16 2010, 09:44 AM
just out of curiousity, that suction hole -- where does it run to.

Posted on AutomotiveForums.com by DoctorBill..................

Posted Image
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idmetro
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gman - It might be worth going to the wrecking yard and getting a spare manifold, then you could take it home and totally clean it up/out. After that you can either swap it in yourself or have it done. By having the spare you can work on it on your own time while still being able to use the car in the mean time.
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gman
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Thanks for the suggestion ID. Well, the check engine light did come back on yesterday, so I think I am going to attempt to clean the egr exhaust that runs back into the engine. If it seems to be too difficult for me to clean, I think I may just take it to my trusty mechanic. At least I know exactly what he needs to do so there won't be a lot of diagnosing, etc that will cost extra $$$$
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idmetro
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gman - you can test out your cleaning job by taking a piece of rubber fuel line (of a dimater that will seal against the large egr hole in the above photo) place it into/over the hole and blow into it. It should take the same amount of effort to blow in either direction (towards the intake or towards the exhaust). Good luck.
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Sparky
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gman
Feb 15 2010, 06:57 PM
Okay, this evening I removed the EGR valve and blew a lot of carb/choke cleaner through it then dried it with compressed air. I got a little dark stuff out the valve but very little. For the most part, the carb/choke cleaner came out clear. After removing the valve, I started the car and checked the holes. The one closest to the front bumper was blowing air out of it. The other hole I could not really feel anything. There may have been a light suction on it, but if so, it was very light. Would this possibly indicate the intake hole is clogged?

I reset the computer so the check engine light went off and put the egr valve back on. I guess I'll see if the check engine light comes back on.
After having gone through what you're experiencing I ended up taking a piece of inner speedo cable about 15 inches long, bending one end at 90 degrees (about 3/16 long), then chucking the other end into a 1/4 inch drill. That makes a heck of a roto rooter that will clean out those passageways that lead from where the EGR valve attaches. The passage leading into the intake manifold was pretty well plugged solid about 2 to 3 inches inside the passageway.

Have fun.
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Sparky
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idmetro
Feb 17 2010, 11:27 AM
gman - It might be worth going to the wrecking yard and getting a spare manifold, then you could take it home and totally clean it up/out. After that you can either swap it in yourself or have it done. By having the spare you can work on it on your own time while still being able to use the car in the mean time.
I'm curious. How many places do you have to break your arms and hands in order to get to the lower attaching bolts and nuts on the intake manifold to remove it? :banghead

I ended up leaving the intake attached to the head when I removed the head. I was waaaaay easier.
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mwebb
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FOG

..."I'm curious. How many places do you have to break your arms and hands in order to get to the lower attaching bolts and nuts on the intake manifold to remove it? :banghead "...

my great grandmother
who was 104 when she croaked and is currently dead ,
blindfolded , with her good arm tied behind her back , could remove one of the intake manifolds on my G10 in about 35 minutes ,

using a 12" 1/4" extension with a wobbly 12mm socket , it would take me
about 1/2 hour
===========================================
or
some shops keep a leprechaun on staff , to get into the very tight places ...
we do not have one .
they are kinda expensive
maybe someday ....
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billy508
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billy508

In WW2 Continental aircraft co built a lot of planes for the navy. They used to hire midgets or very small people to go inside the wings to buck rivets and such We used to have a large Navel air rework facility here in Pensacola. I had a friend who was small and they used to come get him to work on certain planes. Maybe they make autos now. Sometimes I think so. :banana :banana :banana
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